… There was another mission with an APC (armored personnel carrier). You drive around the city in an APC imposing curfew, driving around, wherever you like. Ruining their streets…

What do you mean, ruining their streets? The APC drives and ruins the streets.

What, with cars and things like that? Sometimes they got ruined and sometimes not. Sometimes you drive over cars and sometimes…

Military necessity? No, no military necessity.

I mean, if you want to enter some place and a car is in the way, then it’s a military necessity. No, no, by mistake, not noticing that the place is too narrow... At that time, we could do whatever we wanted. We would shoot… We would stand at the blockade, at the abandoned house, and you could see people from 1 kilometer or 500-600 meters away before they get there. They can’t hear you and you can’t be bothered yelling out to them to go back until they get there, and you can’t be bothered talking to them and sending them back. So you try to keep them away, so they don’t even come close. How do you do that? Shoot next to them.

Live ammunition. Live ammunition. Back then we used only live ammunition. We were inside the city, you shot at whatever you wanted. We would shoot at streetlights… You’d shoot next to it… You’d shoot to deter, in the air, you didn’t need authorization from someone higher than the sergeant in the field, nothing. They would go on the two-way radio, the company, the battalion, and ask you. You’d say: “It was me – all okay”. No one asked why, no one asked anything. At some stage we were in Hummers, armored Hummers. We would impose curfew in a city where no one really obeys you when there is curfew. We would crash into live cars…

I don’t understand. You… Cars go by, and then she sees you, realizes that she has to go back, that she’s not allowed to go. So she starts driving in reverse, and you go faster, so you drive onto her, with an armored Hummer, crash into her.

Did this happen to you, in your Hummer? I was in a Hummer when it happened.

How many times? Me, specifically – once. And apart from the sergeant who was with me in the Hummer, no one knew about it.

Do you know if it happens a lot in the company? If not that, then it happens a lot that guys take them (Palestinians) out of the car and beat them up, so they understand that there’s a curfew.

What do you mean, beat them up? You know, some slaps, some kicks. “Come here, shut up! Why are you doing that, why are you here, why…” And then, “Yalla, get back home!”

Do you know if it happened again with the Hummer? With the Hummer? No.

Who was present at that specific event? We were with an armored Hummer. Four people: a commander, a driver, me and another guy. And I want to say that at the time, I was 8-9 months into my service… I had no awareness at all. The whole situation looked okay to me. It looked okay with everything going on around you, you’re not aware at all… We were driving down there, he reached the junction, started going in reverse, and escaped from us.

Did the sergeant give the order? Yes. “Chase, chase him”. And the driver, he had no doubts whatsoever. A driver from the company, a combat soldier. And then the vehicle got stuck, because there’s traffic in the city… We drive in front of him and just keep going.

The Hummer just went onto the car? It didn’t crush it, it went onto the hood. And then we jumped out of the Hummer, we pulled the guy out, he couldn’t believe his car was a total loss. You grab the people, pin them to the wall, immediately start to… From behind, the car that made him stop comes up. That one was a photographer. So he immediately started taking pictures. My sergeant got pissed off and took his film and photographer card.

Was it a foreign photographer? No, Arab. But yes, a journalist card. And he took his film. No one knew. No one… You have no inquiry after the mission, you don’t have… It was a time when… Like the Wild West. You could do whatever you wanted and no one would ask you, and no one anything.

And that case, didn’t you say something to the sergeant like: “You know, this car… this is wrong… And…”? No, I didn’t realize I was doing something wrong. I mean, you don’t have the awareness. I… I don’t know. It sounds stupid, but you don’t know how bad what you’re doing is. Only later, maybe after two years, maybe after you become a commander, you begin to get a grip, to grow up. You start realizing what you’ve done. I’m not saying I’m the one who… But I saw my friend pinning them to the wall, and these are thirty, forty year olds, not… I said uh-oh, but it didn’t trigger a red light. I said, what a stinking reality this is, and that’s it. Going around the city, doing nothing. Yelling. And sometimes we would have with us a Border Police vehicle, too. For no reason. They would stop, see an open shop, and beat the hell out of everyone. Just making them stand. It was amazing, I remember it. We stopped in front of an open shop when there was still a curfew. The Border Police guys, right away the commander opens his door and makes everyone stand in a line, they all know very well how to stand. Standing: “Why are you…” Flick, flick, two slaps, go home, like that. Eleven people! Two slaps in the face.