The unit's officer training course is an important part because that’s where you really learn the unit’s worldview.

So what’s the unit’s worldview?I remember, say, I don’t remember in what context, but we were told that everything, and they repeated this as well, that everything is a system of interests, everything that we do specifically in the [West] Bank, and in Gaza too, but everything we do in the [West] Bank, is [about] interests. We work with people who can give us something back, and we, they didn’t say punish, but it was kind of obvious what the opposite [of that] is… And that’s it, everything is a system for what we can get. They talked about it in the context of meetings that we may have with Palestinian officials, like to see what I can make him say so that I can better understand what’s going on there inside their (the Palestinian Authority's) apparatus. That’s something I remember.

On the face of it, a relationship based on interests is appropriate in relationships between any two countries. So why do you still say this? What made you think about it, and why do you think it’s relevant to a Breaking the Silence interview?Okay, because maybe I didn’t think about it at the time as something problematic in any way, but I understood when I arrived in Jenin and saw how it works, which means in practice that we prioritize all kinds of people. What does it look like in practice? Say businesspeople we had relationships with, Palestinian businesspeople, where we wanted to better understand, say, who's in charge in Jenin or in the area, through them. We would give people like that permits, or to Palestinian police officers, the security apparatus of the [Palestinian] Authority, give them all kinds of permits. Permits are a very important tool that we have.

Why?Because the ability to enter Israel is something that’s very sought after.

Yes, is it worth money?Yes. So I came to understand how this thing works: on the basis of a system of interests. Like during the time I was in Jenin, even now I still get messages from him – a Palestinian businessman who for every Rosh Hashanah (Jewish New Year) and Passover sends me [a message]: Happy holidays to you and to all the people of Israel. Or something like that. Now, these are people who have realized that they need to have a good relationship with the Israelis because they get the permits or they get the direct contact with the decisionmakers, those who make the decisions in Israel. What’s important here, is that that same person, I have his name written in my phone [along with]: "Do not answer during a coordination meeting." Now, a coordination meeting is what I had every day, with my counterpart in the Palestinian Authority. Right? They get all the requests from the regular people, the Palestinians who are just any old residents of the village or city who need to travel to Israel for some reason. And then I meet them almost every day and we go over everyone.

[You go] over all the requests.Exactly. Now, they emphasized to me, the senior officers on my base in Jenin, that they (the Palestinian Authority representatives) can’t know that we have a relationship with that same businessman, because it must have been the case that it would lead to some kind of showdown between them or undermine the power structure in the village or the city.

On the Palestinians’ side?On the Palestinians’ side.

Between the [Palestinian] Authority’s people and the businessman?Yes, exactly.