Did you happen to encounter Palestinian shepherds in [initiated] operations? Yes, of course. Shepherds, farmers. Yes, of course. With them it’s a whole thing. You also approach them, pester them.

What’s the thing? Havat Gilad tells you that a shepherd from Fara’ata is getting close to them, so you go and try to move him away from their territory. And he says to you “No, but my goat is there, I need to bring her.” You start escorting him, you bring the goat and bring him (the shepherd) back. There’s this issue of borders that are not borders, there’s no… It’s not what’s mine is yours, what’s yours is mine. Everything is together somehow and this territory… This tree is mine and that tree is yours and they’re close [to one another]. You understand? In the end there’s a situation where the old lady is harvesting the olives here and the shepherd is there… There are conflicts on the ground.

Do you as a soldier know where this border is? How would I?

So how do you know… Exactly, that’s exactly part of the issue. He (the Palestinian farmer) tells you listen, these are my grandfather’s grandfather’s trees, this here has been ours for 200 years. [If you tell him] show me [the] Tabu (land registry deed from the Ottoman period), [he will respond] there’s no Tabu, there are no papers. You understand? You don’t know, you have no idea. That’s part of the whole issue in Samaria. Part of the issue with the settlements is this issue, that there’s no real Tabu on the [occupied] territories.

But in the end you do move him away. So on what basis do you decide to move him away? Based on the instructions from higher up.

Who is the higher up? Company commander, battalion commander. The senior commander in the area at that time.

Did you have situations where, say, a settler is with you in this thing? While you… Yes, of course. You’re like coming to move the Palestinian away, or the opposite, yes? If say Havat Gilad enters Fara’ata then you kick them out, but not forcefully, through talking. And if the Palestinian tells you like “No, I’m not moving,” then you… At some point, even if you showed up as cool as can be, at some point it will reach a kind of “Okay, get on with it.” You like push him with your hands, not strong pushes, but you sort of clear him from the area. If the settlers called the [military], reported it and you come, then they stand behind you and shout at him. Of course. Loads and loads and loads [of times].

Is there any chance that a settler tells you something like that and you don’t move the Palestinian away? You tell him, “Listen, he’s far enough away.” Did that happen to you? I had an incident where we moved him away to a place where they said it’s okay.

Who said? The settlers. We moved him until [they] said “Okay, fine.”

It sounds to me a little like the person deciding the situation in this instance was them. Yes. It’s them, yes. Without a doubt. Without a doubt, but it’s not… In the end the company in the area is also trying to help them somehow. I don’t know how to explain it, it’s such a surreal situation. A surreal situation.